F-Zero vs. Wipeout - which is better?

F-Zero, Wipeout, Extreme-G, FAST Racing, BallisticNG...

F-Zero vs. Wipeout - which is better?

Postby d123456 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:44 am

I feel a thread split coming....rant incoming...
AX/GX overrated? There will NEVER be a wipeout game that even comes close to AX/GX. Yes, the characters are really dumb, ugly and stupid. But that is it's only abysmal feature. You can totally design your own space-ship. I love F-Zero and it's BUTT-ROCK, but I loathe the wipeout series. Those stupid narrow badly designed tracks and the power boat-like controls. No thank you. The Wipeout games have such bad art style (probably 'designed' by the devs) and are very unconvincing into thinking that the future would look like that. Played it a couple of times when they came out 96/97? and again on ps3.
I briefly liked Speed King, played with the negcon, but still the playability is pretty bad in that game.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35348
But I'd rather play Speed King than any Wipeout game.
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Re: F-Zero vs. Wipeout - which is better?

Postby spectre » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:17 pm

Wipeout never clicked with me. Tried both Wipeout and Wipeout 2097 and even bought Wipeout 2097 two more times to give it another chance.

First off there's the weapons. I don't like weapons in my racing games. At all! Secondly, the game feels too floaty for my taste. You descibed it perfectly with the boat reference. The vehicles feel heavy and floaty. You HAVE to know the tracks to be fast as the tracks are quite narrow and bumping the wall stops you dead in your tracks... ehrm.. air? And the track design is horrible. Too narrow and weird turns but I like the elevation changes.

I also dig the graphics which I think are very futuristic, minimalistic and sterile and the soundtrack is quite awesome. Wipeout 2097's soundtrack in particular.

F-Zero is much more my style of game. Very high speeds, no weapons, colorful graphics, rocking soundtrack and the thrill of riding on the edge of self destruction.

Track design is good in general across the series but some tracks are obviously better than others. I haven't put much time into F-Zero X but put a LOT of time into F-Zero and F-Zero GX.

I particularly like F-Zero GX for it's risk/reward gameplay where you lose health by boosting and as the game progresses you kind of have to learn the advanced techniques.

And for the record, NO, like Contra, the game is not as hard as people make it out to be. Sure, if you play the GameCube version on a LCD/LED without gamemode and plenty of input lag, YES, it's going to destroy you. And that only goes for the story mode. The Grand Prix mode is manageable on hardest difficulty just REALIZE that you can't win every race and neither will the same CPU.

PS. I also like Star Wars Racer
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Re: F-Zero vs. Wipeout - which is better?

Postby itsgood2slide » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:29 am

My favourite Wipeout is Fusion. I bring this up because something that sets it apart from the other Wipeouts is that they dialled down the aforementioned floatiness/boatiness. Could still be worth a go even if you did not like other games in the series.

I don't rate F-Zero X at all, so GX being handed to Sega was a great move as far as I was concerned. I really need to play more GX to fairly determine how it stacks up versus Fusion (and the other Wipeouts) before I address the main topic here.
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Re: F-Zero vs. Wipeout - which is better?

Postby osaka » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:19 pm

I just feel they're completely different approaches to AG racing. The Wipeout games have a lore where there's an actual comission in charge of the ship's rulesets and the way tracks should be handled, in a way making it a much more "serious" racing league. A good wipeout track is one that you could port into rFactor for example, and in fact I'd love to do so with like 75% of the classic (read: 1, 2097 and 3) wipeout tracks. The addition of weapon systems was probably there to make it so they weren't accused of copying F-Zero, as Psygnosis also had the Rollcage series in terms of combat racing, and it's rarely a nuisance when it comes to the races themselves - it's not Mario Kart in this sense.

Meanwhile the F-Zero games are more on the vein of "unrestricted street racing" - the rules are blurry and lax with the only limitation seemingly being that the more power you put in your ship the heavier it has to be, as seen when you compare the 780kg, twin engined Twin Noritta and the 2300+kg Fat Shark with its 5 gold thrusters. Or the custom HARD  BANGER with well over 3000 kg. Of course this also translates to the track design - much less technical and more in the lines of just how fast can a ship possibly go. It's not like F-Zero doesn't have its fair share of stupid narrow tracks (Serial Gaps, sections in many of the Port Town tracks, Dragon Slopes in particular and most of Aeropolis in general...) so that sounds a bit petty.

As for Fusion, I think it tries to do both things and ends up not excelling at any of them. Specially considering that Temtesh Bay is a thing on there.
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Re: F-Zero vs. Wipeout - which is better?

Postby AkumajoBelmont » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:43 am

WipEout for sure. For me, anyways.

I've never really liked F-Zero all that much in it's earlier incarnations, but I did really dig X and GX -
both were very well done and a ton of fun. The technical racing in WipEout keeps me coming back for more. It's all about the speed and trying to control it, and those racing lines. The WipEout games are much more of a 'driving' type experience, where as F-Zero is more spectacle and focuses on the actual racing. My favourite time with WipEout (and by extension, BallisticNG) is pure time-trials. I always turn the weapons off if I head into a legit race mode though - it's more fun for me that way. The WipEout games help me keep my reflexes sharp - I'm pushing 35, and I appreciate the challenge.

And I don't get why OP would call out the visual design of WipEout and call it crap. It's totally distinctive, and pretty much the polar opposite of the F-Zero Saturday morning cartoon aesthetic. Both have their place, and can totally co-exist without things devolving into "I like this one, so the other one is garbage."
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Re: F-Zero vs. Wipeout - which is better?

Postby Ghegs » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:27 pm

I think I slightly prefer Wipeout over F-Zero - though admittedly the only F-Zero I've played is GX and a bit of the GBA entry GP Legends.

Thing is, snaking kind of ruins GX for me. I know it's not absolutely necessary to beat the game or the staff ghosts, but knowing that that's the game's ultimate technique just bugs me in the back of my mind whenever I'm playing it. The tube courses are also kind of annoying, I think.

I don't generally like weapons in my racers, but since in Wipeouts it's possible to disable them completely, it's a moot point, and that's how I always play them. Like AkumajoBelmont said, racing lines are everything in Wipeout. That feeling when you hit the line just right, touch the air brakes just so and scrape along the track's inner wall, picking up a bit more speed - that feels awesome. I never get tired of that. It's why I've played through Wipeout 3 several times.

That said, their track design philosophy isn't exactly what I personally like. It often feels they're not quite designed for the fastest vehicle class, meaning lots of pinballing around unless you do it exactly right. They're also really short. I understand this is because of the game's combat mechanics, it makes the players be closer to reach other, so no one can ever really run away from the pack and be safe from weapons. But it also means in time attack, especially with the faster classes, you end up with 20-30 second lap times and I don't find that very fun myself, I like longer courses.

I guess I'm still hoping to come across the futuristic racer that'd hit all my sweet spots. Neither F-Zero or Wipeout made it to my Top 5 list, after all.
Speed is the magic that gives us direction
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Re: F-Zero vs. Wipeout - which is better?

Postby osaka » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:46 am

Ghegs wrote:I guess I'm still hoping to come across the futuristic racer that'd hit all my sweet spots.


Then go play redout, silly
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Re: F-Zero vs. Wipeout - which is better?

Postby Ghegs » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:57 pm

osaka wrote:
Ghegs wrote:I guess I'm still hoping to come across the futuristic racer that'd hit all my sweet spots.


Then go play redout, silly


I have, I bought it on launch. But for whatever reason, it didn't hold my interest after I had put 8 hours into it.
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